Pharma Insights 🩺

[Music]

thank you very much so today is me stefan 
repin but it's not about me today today it's

about the wonderful guest we have we'll start 
with the uh with Dan here so Dan um Dan is the

CEO of brandcast health and then will tell us 
a little bit about himself Dan what do you do

at BR brandcast Health yeah very quickly so I 
Ron bran cast health we're a medical marketing

and Communications agency based in London and 
our focus is really content strategy um and

delivery and uh the reason I'm excited to talk 
about CRM is I think that if we want to build

relevant content that creates trust between 
industry and healthc Care Professionals then

we need a really good CRM strategy we need to 
understand the data and we need to understand

how to communicate with our customers in a really 
relevant way and I think that's where the most

impact is is going to be found so that's a bit 
about me you're right thank you there next one

is Claudia we met Claudia through Floren the the 
you know the the black Cardinal here who knows

everyone Claudia tell us about so you you've been 
with uh boringer before uh what are you doing now

with belly slide Consulting yeah so I after 13 
years in Pharma eight in astroica five inbi I

decided to embark on my own journey and uh and 
I set up this um consultant FCO belly slide uh

which we're going to be with are focusing on 
uh brand strategy marketing strategy and then

the continuation of it into applying it into 
you know and experience mapping Omni Channel

um planning but also with a with a capability 
building support on the pin in that because my

aim is not just to Target big companies but also 
medium to small companies I'm intending to also

work in lat time if there's any viewers any L 
time viewers um so yeah so just to do a proper

service to our client and make sure that they are 
prepared to sustain whatever strategy we set up

together so yeah that's me thank you Claudia 
and we have the bus here BS flan uh floran is

the SVP Global head of commercial Excellence for 
um green andal and basically we started this uh

webinar because we actually had a really good chat 
on our podcast about um generative generative AI

open Ai and um you know all all the stuff AI and 
I was thinking that um you know Viva is kind of

lagging behind Ai and we in fact we connected a 
little bit earlier for this webinar and uh well

Florance started complaining what a hard week he 
had and one part of it was that um you mentioned

that you used analytics with uh well the data 
you had you used it with generative AI could

could you explain like how did you guys what 
did you do what results did you have you know

we trying to be practical here let's start 
with that yeah no no sure with pleasure and

thanks for inviting me and and to to this great 
group now the the just as a background you know

I started in Pharma quite some time ago and I 
was guilty to spend $150 million to implement

a Cel infrastructure across a whole company just 
when we were finish rolling out this $150 million

CRM we destroyed it to replace it by another one 
and so i' I've got an history of love and with

uh with CRM and uh the the one thing that is 
fascinating me is we have dumped in CRM across

the industry hundreds and hundreds of millions 
of dollars in Consulting in licenses in Tools in

data and to create executive territory Management 
Systems by which we know when a rep goes to see

a customer and what he does with the customer 
but we know nothing actually about the customer

and the last thing we actually do is customer 
relationship management with the crms we have

and this is highly frustrating and I think you 
know learning from that and postco going into an

omni Channel world where our customers are what 
they are they consume content across the web

across social media across everywhere you need 
all that data aggregated somewhere to be able

to really understand your customers pivot your 
strategy around the customer and then actually

do CRM but the one thing we realize very rapidly 
is that without the help of tools like you know

the inin from Salesforce or with some generative 
AI tools the wealth of data you have to manipulate

to be able to decide if Dr rein wants to have 
you know an information on safety or efficacy

well you know what it's it's amazing it's it's 
huge no human being can compute that so that's

why we are really think thinking that adding a 
layer of AI on top of the existing data sets as

long as they are clean is really the way for one 
to be able to interact nearly on a onetoone basis

with every single customer in the industry which 
if I remember well is what we were promised the

first time we implemented a Cel you know so it's 
a little bit about time you know like 15 years

later with content a little bit then you wanna 
you want to come up with your uh Insight sure I

mean like I'm totally aligned with all that I mean 
I think I think there's immense frustration from

many people around you know what the current CRM 
solution looks like I think from my perspective

as a you know as a as a marketing agency that's 
working mainly with marketers um and seeing how

they use a CRM and actually what I'm finding 
in most case I don't know about everybody who's

watching but in the most most cases it's used as 
effectively a call log for sales reps there's no

there's nothing really more than that um I know 
that analytics are done so you know get results

and look at like sentiment on on um on screens for 
like e details and stuff like that which tells you

a few things but it certainly doesn't do anything 
close to what most crms have been capable of for

a very very long time and you know even you know 
years years ago we were be able to achieve much

better things with automations and in and stuff 
that we simply don't do so I I I think that on

the conversation of AI I think the first point is 
I think people don't understand the capability of

their own crms right now I think that's something 
that should be an absolute priority is for people

that understand that they whether it's marketers 
and account managers for example understanding

that there is strategy in designing a CRM so if 
you know what you need to know about a customer

like you adoption ladder their Persona type 
their interest their object objections these

should all be clear fields in the CRM that you're 
strategically putting in place for each brand so

that as that person interacts with even just 
on a sales rep level they're able to log those

things down and make you know have a clear 
distinction between different customer types

that the marketing teams or medical Affairs teams 
can then use in order to solve those Pro problems

or answer those questions on a mass scale so 
that that's the first thing that I think needs

to be done the second thing is considerations of 
those automations and actually integrating the CRM

into things Beyond sales for so thinking about the 
websites like having forms on your webinars that

are connected to your CRM that allows customers 
to input data that you can then react to and and

create automations from so there's loads of 
great information about that stuff everywhere

and I would recommend that any marketers people 
in medical Affairs sales teams go and look at

that just to get a baseline knowledge of it the 
second hurdle is then it's it's quite complicated

there's so much stuff you can do trying to build 
those dashboards and out out takes a professional

someone who understands CRM deeply and what we now 
have with with AI whether it's Einstein like you

mentioned Floren or something like with HubSpot 
where you've got chat spot like all the crms were

starting to develop these things where instead of 
spending hours trying to figure out how to build a

dashboard where you can just see who are your who 
your biggest product promoters and Advocates you

can just ask like via the chat like chat GPT can 
you build me a dashboard um that shows me these

things can you show me which email subject headers 
work the best which which sales team converts the

most you know Etc which web pages generate the 
most leads for our sales team all this kind of

stuff without having to have that knowledge and 
expertise and training um is pretty incredible

so you could have like you know you wouldn't 
have to have an amazing knowledge of CRM in

order to build that stuff out but what I do think 
is critical is knowing the principles of CRM and

inbound marketing in order to personalizing like 
Florence said to start to build relationships on

an individual basis because if you don't even have 
that knowledge you don't know what to ask the CRM

to do anyway so for me that's that capability 
piece is is super important and maybe Claudia

has some comments on excellent marketer here 
by the way so yeah well excellent to hear all

of that because I'm I'm I don't disagree nor I I 
think there's a lot of detail to work there I I

I personally also am amazed but you know I've been 
reading a lot in the last few months in particular

on AI and the potential of ear and it's definitely 
there right there's all these all these making

the understanding easier making the automating 
easier and then making the optimization easier

definitely I feel the some of the frustrations of 
floran and I have observed that as well being kind

of in the middle between sales marketing and and 
how sometimes the CRM is not utilized to the best

mainly because there are disconnections in what 
we're trying to achieve and how we use it and and

what data we want to even input or extract out of 
it and then what do we do with this and sometimes

Fair excuses on both sides you know again is is 
daunting and people don't necessarily always have

the time to invest in trying to even understand 
what's coming out of it there one word of cautious

from my side and whoever knows me would say you 
know I'm I've always been a big champion of this

we need to be very careful on what we talk about 
when we say understanding and the only thing that

I'm going to say is data does not allow us to 
understand everything and and floran was saying

right CRM I think the bit that has been missing 
is a relationship just before we went live we were

talking about this whole Latin American way of 
building relationships and how it's about actually

very strong very quick personal human connection 
that human to human thing and I think we just need

to make sure that we don't let AI just lead way 
and forget that we humans need to keep connecting

with the humans because without that deep 
understanding that relationship piece would never

really be built it was going to be it's going 
to be customer management and not necessarily

we're going to build very strong relationship so 
massive ex you know amplifier definitely um we

just need to make sure that we don't lose sight of 
what are the right questions we need to ask what

is this deep understanding that we're seeking to 
have of our customers beyond the behavioral data

points so so you're you're leaning more into Data 
basically like how are we using data and sort of

the disconnections alignment between marketing 
and sales and how do we use data and uh Floren

do you wanna do you want to Le with this yeah no 
I think that that's totally right I I do uh see

that we have in average in the commercial teams in 
the Pharma industry a lower level in terms of data

and analytics than what we have in the R&D teams 
for instance um the the level of understanding

of the mats behind is quite lower the appetite to 
generate and to use data to create insights that

are going to lead to the strategies is also lower 
in a sense that Pharma has been Rich for quite

some time so Pharma relies on uh market research 
specialist agencies specialized agencies that do

market research qualitative quantitative whatever 
you that the marketeer you know kind of drives

then they get the results and then from there 
they find the shiny piece of stuff that will allow

them to build a campaign and and push a marketing 
message and shine in uh you know a board meeting

and maybe get an award of the best campaign of 
the year at the end and then they restart again

and and in all that if you think about it there 
is nothing around the customer there is nothing

around the data on the customer and what we 
do for different groups of customers and it's

fascinating to see that this is probably coming 
from the initial trainings but also from what made

them successful when they were rewarded more for 
great campaigns and market share increase than for

customer satisfaction and you know deepening the 
relationship with the customers and that's just

not judging that it's just an observation I think 
it's you know now that we're are coming into an

omni Channel world where market research for in is 
very uh um Limited in terms of the visibility and

the insights it can generate we need to use 
bigger data sets but to be able to use them

smartly the people need to understand how that's 
done how you collect the data how you create the

data how you collect it how you clean it how 
you you know govern it and how you use it into

uh building your insights and your strategies and 
fundamentally again to come back you know to to to

the topic of today this is what CRM is supposed 
to be made for but we've never used it this

[Music] way yeah never never use it this 
way although sometimes wonder about the

the possibilities of the the serum and I think um 
with the introduction of generative AI you will

have way more insights which you know you can you 
have more more creativity which you know is the

basics of sales and Market if you think about it 
right um yeah go ahead go ahead so I just yeah I

think like like these are like really good points 
and my experience as well is this idea of of of

using market research which often is the just the 
way that that market research is positioned is the

is product first so rather than going backwards 
and looking at say customer satisfaction like

what's working well what even even from a tactical 
perspective what is our best way to engage what is

like what is it that's working it's this idea that 
we have like a new strategic imperatives based on

the competitors in the market everything's built 
off differentiators so rather than what is the

problem that we solve for the customer it is 
how do we differentiate our product from our

competitor so what you end up with is this this 
market research that's built on how people would

respond and react to choice of product rather 
than understanding what the market problem is

and I think to to Claudia's Point around that 
you know talking about relationships and and

you know gen will be useful we are we we we are 
in a kind of dangerous situation I I see people

you know looking at you know quoting things from 
like Medscape and Viva right and it's like doctors

don't like interacting with Farmer on their own 
on their channels they just don't like doing it

or like you know Viva will say like digital 
content you just need to produce more digital

content your Viva eils because it shows that 
if you have digital content then you get more

conversions like but this is like this data is 
is is true but like it's completely takes out the

context of the personal interaction or what that 
content is like surely the real the real impact

is like is that content valuable and so for me 
it doesn't matter what channel it is like just

because that's how it is now if you're not looking 
at the customer needs and adding value then they

won't interact on any channel I would I would say 
that if if farmer produced something on their own

channel and no one wants to interact with it if 
they produce it on Medscape does it suddenly make

it good content no it's just the same they still 
don't want to interact so so if we do use gen I

think it's it's important yes it can it can tell 
us Trends and it can give us information right

now some of that kind of personalized stuff that 
it might produce you may need you really do need

those people on on the ground to like take the 
Insight from that and say like well I know this

customer and this isn't like how I would talk to 
them and it isn't how I would respond to them so

just making sure that we don't lose the creativity 
and the Insight at strategic level um I think will

be really really key yeah and I would even add 
to to your point Dan that is is the understanding

and this is and this is a beauty I think of the 
evolution of the industry the Health Care system

is going to force us into either do that or die 
because it's it's not only understanding the

human in the past it was yeah let's understand 
the Deep motivations the challenges the worries

whatever it is that we should have been asking 
those questions right those fundamental questions

as supposed to do you like this content was it 
nice uh now is even in context right because

the systems are getting the healthare system 
is getting more complicated we're not talking

even now a rep right you're talking the whole 
strategic account team trying to crack that Sy

system and trying to solve those problem so that 
then the drug can even exist um and and having

that that understanding both at a deep level but 
equally understanding this network of influences

and whatnot we were not able to do I'm really 
hoping that AI is going to help us do but we need

to keep asking the right questions and we need 
to your point yes we do need to have the people

on the ground understanding the customer and the 
customer in their context so they can feed that as

well into the database because otherwise it's it's 
a bit of a of a superficial maybe kind of outcomes

we're going to get out of it yeah I mean I would 
love to see like exactly that I I think some of

the things that I would love to see and I don't 
know and Floren you you may you guys might be

already starting to implement some of this stuff 
because I know that you you've been working hard

because because things like you know looking 
at your levels of adoption and your different

customer groups and actually understanding okay 
what's where's the biggest commercial impact so

if we if we only need to if we'd be better 
off spending our resource on this specific

customer group that might expand use of a product 
rather than this customer Group which might start

using a product being able to say to gen across 
multiple markets to say like what who are these

customers where can they be activated and what is 
the message that's been working across different

markets or what's the content that's been working 
that is moving them from that level of adoption to

the next that sort of insight at scale should be 
so powerful because you could focus your marketing

spend on that specific customer group in every 
different country knowing exactly what the key

message should be and the tactic that is going to 
have the most chance to overcome it and then you

use your people in your strategy and people on 
the ground to really take that information and

activate it for me there's the power because 
all that wasted money on tactics that are just

created for the sake of it or falls on deaf ears 
and nobody's interested like can can be gone all

that there's a huge amount of waste I think and 
for me that's that that's something that could

be very significant I don't know Floren if that's 
something that you that's the kind of thing you

guys are looking at at the moment but exactly 
so ex so that's you have exactly framed the

end picture of where we want to be are we there 
yet not totally not to be totally transparent

uh because getting there we realize it was far 
more complicated than what we s initially so yes

we have high level models that tell us if you 
have a commercial organization structured this

way they through that way this is how much you can 
generate in sales versus this is how much you can

generate in sales that's uh you know marketing 
mix model that multitouch libration and stuff

like that those are statistical model that already 
require quite robust data set good data scientist

and people in the business who understand the 
maths to be able to work with them so we we are

at that level but then exactly to your point we 
like okay if we want to go to individual customer

level to make sure we deliver the best possible 
interaction we need to be able to drill down

into the contents that those people are consuming 
and the feedback they give us when you open that

Pandora box you find a few things the first thing 
is I have not found anywhere on this planet and

in any school anywhere in University or whatever 
someone capable of articulating how you create a

Content strategy how do you define which content 
with which media you need to create to be able

to satisfy your customer base like overall you 
know like we got the Cutler of marketing right

that level of thinking theoretical framework on 
how do you create your content strategy because

that would drive what you need to tag what you 
need to record as information and all that so how

are we approaching it I mean we do the same you 
know pivoting uh as physics has done at one point

in time we go experimental so we are tagging what 
we can we are putting the contents across all the

the channels and then we are going to collect the 
interactions we are going to collect the customer

satisfaction we are going to start using NBA 
from Einstein on Salesforce or other system

to push a little bit of content to the customer 
to see how they they respond to it and that will

give us a first ID of the positive impact we can 
have there but by doing so one single interaction

between an hcp and a web page can be six to seven 
to 10 content items that can be the trigger of

something so you imagine the volumetry suddenly 
of data that you have and again coming back to my

previous point I don't think any human being can 
process that volume of data and this is exactly

why we will need AI that is able to pass huge 
volume of data in a very short time to be able

to generate okay you know what this is standing 
out you for you to find why it is standing out

but at least I tell you this piece of your content 
is resonating with oncologist that are above 55

and leave below a line that goes from Paris to uh 
Switzerland and and that's what we need first to

be able to educate ourselves but it's we are not 
there yet we we expect to be there but I think

it's going to take us at least 12 to 18 months 
to get to that level awesome I like the content

so the the content uh was like the content was the 
content strategy right so uh Claudia how would you

do a Content strategy uh oh okay so there is a a 
LinkedIn user saying Sur a lot of cont strategies

based on trial and error so testing PLS video 
podcast and infographics across all the channels

is the wi to do it that being said there are okay 
I'm going to show it to everyone yeah that being

said there are no AI tools to create draft content 
that needs to need to be quality checked by med

media me medial writer I think media writers is 
the kind of solutions we are now introducing to

the live Sciences interesting um would you would 
you see AI helping a lot in producing like better

quality content but I think the problem is not 
the the content itself you can create content

but if you don't know your customers and God 
damn it you won't create the best content ever

right corre and we were discussing with Claudia 
the other day that the fact that although you

have all the generative tools you have in the 
world right like you have open Ai and so on uh

if you don't know the customers and you have to go 
through 15 you have to talk to the same person 15

times from legal who says today it's a yes yeah 
your content going go through tomorrow tomorrow

he says no it's it's not a good deal you this 
this content is not good enough then you know

AI is is not going to help so I think we have 
a people's issue here not a not just an AI uh

problem um Claudia would you have a comment on 
this I well I had actually a question for Floren

because on that on that topic uh if you guys are 
so Advanced I'm just curious how are you tackling

the whole and and what conversations have you been 
having on approval process and what not because

it feels like you know yes great we're going to 
be personalizing everything but we still even if

you power the revieww process pre-review use so 
whatever you want to put in place at the moment

at least in the UK you have got a human that 
needs to be at the end of the day signing off

by the way a human that is a freelancer in most 
instances that their name depends on not having

claims we know the story and and you have that 
having to approve the final form of the content

so it's called or whichever the the variation of 
that so I wonder how you guys are what are you

discussing around and how you getting around that 
that potential for yeah so so so completely right

uh and our thinking is to apply you know the same 
Med to this process and to power the legal medical

regulatory approval process through AI I mean some 
companies are already doing it and Jen just to

name them is doing it um yeah and there is a way 
by which you can make the life of the approvers so

much simpler because most of the content actually 
that we create is just a rashing of an existing

content let's be honest I mean someone who comes 
with a new study and new IDs and new graphic and

stuff it happens once in a while overall it's 
just reing with better wording and stuff like

that or new imagery and things so for all that we 
can probably divide by 10 the time they need to

review and approve which would help us to produce 
10 times more so that that's how to personalize it

and also you know one once they trust the system 
if the declination between the various version is

just minimal but intended to satisfy a specific 
audience they can approve in group or stuff like

that so we are we are working on that uh that they 
were very receptive audience honestly because no

one ever does anything for those guys they have 
the for of the you know technology Evolution so

they are happy that someone comes to them but 
yeah it's going to be a challenge we we know

the volumes are going to increase but I would like 
also to come back on on Stefan Point saying AI may

not help us I'm not sure because one of the the 
more we manipulate uh the Gen stuff the more we

see that it fine tunes itself to the interactions 
it has with you which means if I am an hcp and

I'm consuming content through a gen interface the 
content that will be offered to me in the future

will be more and more ATT tune to what I like 
seeing yeah the format of the image the lengths

of the video the topics that will be proposed to 
me even the the the the nov long invented by the

the AI will correspond to what I'm respond it's 
absolutely fascinating I mean you know the I I I

already I don't know if I told you I already got 
into um gen through my son because he was playing

with ch gbt all the time you know in school and 
stuff like that and I was like come on this is not

really work but he did an experiment he his IDE 
was I want to know if I can depress Chad GPT he

was having a very depressing discussion with Chad 
GPT and feeding the system only with Lana Del re

lyrics so every Everything the system would say he 
would just drop copy and paste Lana Del lyrics and

you could see this the structure of the system 
sentences and the tone going you know downhill

in terms of up and stuff like that and that was 
really interesting to see the system is kind of

self adjusting to what you expect from it and 
therefore maybe it can have the patience that

we humans don't have to adjust to every single 
one customer at least for the all the digital

part so maybe they can they can improve yeah I I 
would agree with that and I think it's there's a

massive power on on the on the on the tweaking 
on the into into Florance not to say even the

the you know the the minimizing mistakes or errors 
or whatever but it's also the tweaking to the tone

to the V to the little variations that perhaps we 
humans to an extent get tired and then may may end

up repeating even more often I've used that a lot 
my work um the optimization of time is remarkable

I do I do think though that that essential work 
of as humans vetting the creativity level the

you know even the essential key messages or what 
not that come out of our deep understanding still

need to stay there I don't think we need 
to just leave it to their own devices but

it definitely has got a lot of capacity to help 
ladies and gentlemen we have a question from the

audience so which is um um how do you see gen 
AI being used to analyze the data and predict

the next conversation between the rep and CPS 
also what Integrations do you think will be

critical interesting question right Lauren 
you want to be the Pioneer so no so uh so

yeah prediction I don't know honestly uh we 
are not there at that St we have kind of you

know statistical model can we call them radii 
I don't know uh like they are machine learning

uh model and stuff like that they help us 
do predictions but it's it's very generic

it's very high level uh can you really use AI 
today to predict the human reactions and you

can anticipate that this is more likely than this 
but really predicting is going to be difficult so

predicting the content conversation I mean from 
all my field experiences uh the conversation can

be driven by the last interaction of an CB 
with the last patient they met and therefore

could go completely unpredictable that always 
a challenge for the the the field teams to be

able to re-engage the customer answer their 
immediate need and then re-engage them on the

topic we wanted to discuss with them so I I don't 
know maybe maybe one day that would be that that

would be possible I I I would also build on that 
say I just I just don't think it's necessary at

the moment because I would say before we worry 
about jna telling us what conversation to have

next first let's worry about understanding how 
like even having the data captured within the

CRM to even make that assumption ourselves so 
I would probably say um I'm making assumptions

here and but in MO in many cases most people who 
who are watching or interested in in in this topic

um will have websites for their brands and most of 
those websites will not be directly linked to the

CRM or most of the customer interactions when 
when a customer comes on it won't be tracking

cookies or know who they are so you don't even 
know what they're looking at on your website and

added to that you probably don't even have that 
much content on your website so most people will

be focused on more of a brocher based site where 
it's just the product data if you actually want to

know what the the expert is interested in you also 
going to have to have some kind of Content Library

where where you've got people engaging on this 
so it's just again thinking about the strategy

and when we talked about you know is there someone 
who can build out a Content strategy the the issue

is that there's two different types there's like 
your kind of business as usual like you need to

consistently attract people into conversations 
and all the content there needs to be around

your content Niche it needs to be relevant to 
your product but more relevant to the customers

and not really about your product data and stuff 
and that's where people will come and they will

learn maybe medical education medical Affairs are 
usually great at this type of job is like building

interactions webinars um showcasing guidelines 
publication summaries all that stuff around your

content Niche if you're regularly producing that 
content people will come to your channels only

then is your CRM relevant because before they come 
to your channels it's not really that relevant

unless they they've already kind of signed up or 
subscribed right so at that point if you if you

have a a sales team and they if you've programmed 
an an Automation in your CRM so that when someone

you who is known to the website via cookies looks 
at say a white paper on the latest guidelines in

your therapy area that that rep is tagged as their 
content contact owner or in their territory that

rep should get an email to say Dr um Dr rein has 
um has just downloaded the white paper on latest

guidelines in whatever um you should probably have 
a conversation with them about that you don't need

a jna to make that recommendation so I think 
when we have that volume of content then maybe

it will be good at helping make recommendations 
or maybe it would just be useful for the rep to

to to type into the CRM rather than look 
at it and look at their alerts just type

in who's interactive with content on on any of 
our websites so just prioritizing their list of

customers to engage with therefore increasing 
the chance of interaction so for me it's like

that content Journey building that into the CRM 
and understanding those critical interactions and

having alerts to tell people what they should 
what they should be maybe communicating next

would probably be probably be more relevant than 
you know if you've only got 12 V approved emails

that you're allowed to send why do you need an AI 
to recommend to which one you know Ian it's just

it I think it's just I think it would be will be 
super helpful when we get to the point of being

able to have enough content and manage enough 
content so maybe the first thing is for the AI to

help us develop and manage that level of content 
before we need to use it to recommend where to go

I think where it would be even more useful I know 
there's some companies I I don't know much about

this it's probably beyond my field of expertise 
but where where we're able to provide data on

like where customers are interacting across many 
different channels and um get insights into what

papers they're reading and stuff like that and 
the AIA can then maybe recommend what type of

content marketing you should produce to attract 
them that's more interesting to me because that's

yeah that that would be pretty cool from a from a 
marketing perspective as well as well like being

able to know what should we produce next based 
on what are people interacting with outside of

outside of our sphere of influence that would 
also be pretty cool yeah that's typically the

difference you have between how people use Viva 
and how people use Salesforce like in Salesforce

we got all those information we we can segment 
the customer in the customer data platform on

250 Dimensions so it's easier to be able to get 
to that level where on Viva people have focused

on next best action for uh so I we did that back 
in Astra zenica in 2015 in Japan it worked the

Reps liked it when it was just you know you go to 
that hospital and there's a doctor you've not seen

yeah you should drop a meeting in the calendar 
and then you should try to see him because the

rep could understand it so they liked it but it 
didn't go you know really beyond that that was a

nice helping tool and nothing more nothing 
more than that absolutely but you know the

the the one thing you know to come back to what 
you were saying and what clodia was building on

in terms of capabilities we have in the us alone 
around 150,000 sales rep in the Pharma industry

every single one of those reps make around eight 
calls a day right let's say eight calls a day so

over a year we have about 2 120 to 240 million 
interactions with customer where we could ask

a question record information in a system and 
use that to enrich the net customer experience

imagine the power of that but it's not built 
in the DNA of our marketeers to use such data

set and sear tools because no one to to clodia 
point has ever trained them on that and told

them this is now available for you in the same 
way that very very few of them scan social media

to understand what is actually happening in the 
real world and they use the flag of you know uh

risk of you know bad usage of the drug as okay we 
shouldn't look at that they they are like doing

the ostr you know the and understand ignoring 
the world outside and and I think that's where

we can help those people uh become better they do 
it in fmcg there is no reason why we shouldn't be

doing it in healthare yeah 100% And and there's 
so much potential floran even in that um and we

did we did do some exercise similar to that NBI 
but it was more for training but the listening

to the interactions and learning from that is so 
powerful the challenge is though and and again

without wanting to open a Pandora box but there's 
so many cultural challenges in F and the way we

operate in the in the in the in the eternal how 
do I name this in the Eternal not fight but you

know rivalry if you like or frictions between 
in marketing and sales now listen to that does

that mean that you know you are you listening to 
me or are you trying to learn about the customer

and until this customer relationship management is 
owned by everyone and we understand that this is a

cross functional effort and hopefully AI is going 
to help us connect the dots as well internally

because again when the complexity is there it 
takes a team to figure it out yeah but um but

there's there's so much of that as well right on 
it's not that I don't know how to use it there's

there's a lot more than I don't know how to use it 
that is preventing me from using tools like that

yeah I I and it is is a box but like the the the 
collaborative part of it is is really important

and I think I I mentioned earlier on talking about 
like it's important to understand CRM capabilities

and build that into your strategy for marketing 
but part of that strategy should also be how that

CRM that and the content that you've created as 
a marketer supports your Salesforce in driving

things home like I I created a video like a 
a few months back with with just some Basics

on CRM like if you're a marketer this is how you 
can build your adoption ladder or objections into

your CRM this is how you should think about it and 
actually this is how it's relevant to your sales

team who are actually trying to convert things 
for you and actually if you allow them to help

you design that they're going to tell you what 
the key questions are and objections are you're

going to be able to log that in your CRM you'll 
be able to put that into your capture forms on

your websites and things like that so you know I 
I think it has to be a a collaborative effort and

then even I know like then you talk about medical 
Affairs and to be honest with you medical Affairs

have some better values in some areas of this 
and I know there's there's question marks over

how data should be shared and how we should 
interact but at one point like we've talked

about top of funnel content marketing we've 
talked talked about the sale talked about the

middle but we haven't talked about customer growth 
and expansion and maybe there it's like somebody

wants a you know a fellow medic a clinical person 
to ask questions and and challenge like how to

solve an an adverse event or whatever else then 
then why why can't medical Affairs be that you

know that person so it's like how can they be 
part of this this this process as well um and

make sure that their content is tagged and that 
everybody is working together around a customer

goal like the customer is moving through and it 
should be touched at every Point by the right

people by the right content um and I think that 
that's that's the thing for me that's dismissing

and um I think when people realize that nobody's 
fighting against each other everyone is commercial

to an extent everyone's trying to drive a 
customer from least value to most value and

everyone if they have the right values and why 
they're working in this industry is trying to

generate good impact for patient so just because 
you're trying to Market a drug doesn't mean you

know you you're trying just trying to sell it 
and just because you're in medical doesn't mean

that you don't care about the bottom line of 
your business I think that mentality has to

change and then the power of AI is going to be 
even better because we're going to spread all

the work that everyone's doing is going to be is 
going to be captured and insights are going to be

generated you know who who should interact with 
this customer based on this question well we've

seen that if it's an MSL interaction it's actually 
better than having an account manager come in at

this stage so now on medical you should take on 
this this side of the customer Journey would be

you know would be really cool but I think just 
that that fundamental understanding first of

the capability you already have in your hands 
the automations you can produce through through

Salesforce and stuff you know the the plotting out 
your adoption ladder tagging your content tracking

objections knowing what Persona or customer is 
if the marketing and sales team have have an

understanding of that then it's going to be great 
as I said I I done a video on this and people go

to branas health.com resources there's a video 
that's called how how something about how CRM um

is the key to understanding Omni channel it's like 
eight minutes of your life it's it's what I would

consider fundamentals but I think for some people 
it will just open their eyes to the capabilities

once you once you've got that mindset now you 
start marketing different you start working with

your sales team different um so yeah I think I 
think it's these are really important points to to

cover you sorry no I just I just was going to 
comment on perhaps a little bit more philosophical

but your point on the alignment because at the 
end of the day we're all there for the patient

and I think sometimes we forget and we call it 
commercial like if it's a dirty word and I in you

could even remove it if you just make it truly 
patient Centric automatically becomes customer

Centric and then automatically we're all aligned 
behind the same goal um we're all here for the

same reason no matter what function you belong 
to it's it's it should be one plan should be one

system in which we try to understand how do we 
remove those barriers for ultimately the drug

which we believe is good for the patients get to 
the patients and you know that can benefit from

that but I wouldn't say AI is a silver bullet to 
solve the human problems inside the Enterprise

inside the company right but it can help so if you 
go to those people like medical and you ask them

you know who want the customer they will tell you 
I own the customer because the customer medic like

me I'm the one best place to understand him and 
I'm the best place to talk to him then you will go

to the marketeers and they will tell you I own the 
customer because I'm creating the customer Journey

end to end and I drive them along the journey 
toward the adoption of the product and then

you go to the sales team and they tell you I own 
the customer I'm the only one who makes sense to

them I'm one talking to them every day so you know 
what but the what AI can do is what we've done in

one of the ex on the trading is you you dump your 
data on your fake product you can you can you can

create a you know a custom GPT in GPT 4 right you 
dump your elements on your fake product into it

because it's still public domain so you don't want 
to dump your internal data into it but you do that

and then you ask a CH GPT to can you tell me which 
are the most likely eligible hcps to be interested

by that product based on their patient pool and 
stuff like that the system is going to tell you

so you have this type of specialist you can then 
ask it country by country and you will see that

given the healthare system are different you will 
have different types of of doctors in the Target

then you can ask the system can you create an 
education curriculum for those hcps so that they

go from knowing nothing about the therapeutic area 
and the product to their expert and the stuff is

going to do it then you can ask okay can you give 
me based on my product profile What would could be

the key differentiator versus the competitors 
and what could be the key message we need to

include and then you can go down to the leflet 
that someone could could be using and and if

you do that exercise in a cross functional team at 
the end of the day everyone is holy [ __ ] we are

all together and and that's really what matters 
and that's where for me AI may not be a solution

but it can be a catalyst to make this thing happen 
100% And and the bit of the date at the beginning

from is is the bit that will force us to come 
together right because without the the data

being all in one place there's no game so we have 
to work together or or or not or die or die that's

that's the American side of Cl in the next but 
it's true that in the next five years five forward

or whatever who is not that but in this bus is not 
going to probably be here to tell the story so we

we do need to get together and it's great that's 
that's what I am more excited about it's forcing

us to solve some of the cultural underlying 
issues I'm gonna steal it from you Claudia

my next tagline will be AI do or it turns out it 
turns out that we need a robot to help us be more

human that's no no no we need to stay there this 
is a companion this is a very clever companion I

do not think it should remove our you are thinking 
we have we have a question from the audience so

uh J is saying that you talk a lot about cross 
functional collaboration with sales marketing and

also other departments to holistically optimize 
personalized engagement with hcps so my question

would be how far are we actually in that area to 
align people uh and enter in large Enterprises all

across brand cross countries who's brave enough 
enough to take this [Music] [Laughter] question

I think that has been the journey everyone has 
been trying to go on it's just that you know

it's not that easy it's human beings we talking 
about here human beings with Legacy attitudes to

you know what does it mean to collaborate being 
frankly as well no there's there's other things

that you need to solve in order to 100% enhance 
that collaboration incentives being one of the

recognition I mean we talked about so many things 
and uh but I I I do think that we have come a long

way if I compare to I don't know maybe 10 years 
ago um but it's a journey I don't think we are

100% there floran seems to have more of a hold 
of it but uh in in grun but I I think everyone's

trying and everyone at least I think everyone 
is conscious of that being a goal and being a

challenge that we have CL I think I think that 
you where you touched on um like incentives and

things I don't think that's the answer but but I 
do think objectives incentives performance reviews

and stuff is something that um would would does 
need to change in order to allow people to do this

because if if you know where when there's there's 
vanity metrics around sales and msls and stuff

like that having to get X number of meetings and 
stuff yeah like why would you share information

about a customer with the marketing and the rest 
of the sales team if that's going to just result

in your competitive Advantage being removed so 
like that kind of thing and again it's like you

know I think you said it around the switch in 
mindset if you start to think our goal is the

impact of the patient rather than SE selling the 
product then you start to think of it differently

and then maybe people's incentives are different 
people's objectives are different uh and then you

get less competitiveness between functions like 
the way budgets are distributed things like that

that I don't know I not worked in in a farma so I 
don't know but I I do you know people worry about

that and complain about it just little things like 
the idea that if you don't use all your budget one

year then you don't get that budget the next year 
so then people just throw budget at agencies and

I've been there and it's great for business but 
it's a waste of money you know just oh we'll just

do this project because I need to use my budget 
by the end of the year that kind of thing to me

for a company that makes health care products 
for patients why don't you just use that money

on trying to help a hospital in your region make a 
new test center or something you know I don't know

I just think it's like if the goals were different 
and what you were measured on is different and how

you received budgets was different then maybe 
you would take a different approach to strategy

and there would be a more alignment between 
the functions yeah so on on this one it took

us a whole reorganization and a lot of focus of 
uh the management team and a lot of repeating

the message uh rewriting the job description 
recreating the standard operating procedure

and all that to be able to get to a good level of 
alignment are we there all down the way I'm not

sure and what I know that you know if you take 
the global teams yes the people are aligned uh

and we're collaborating together we were this week 
on a team meeting with all the global commercial

functions and you could feel the the one team 
one crowd spirit and and everyone in the same

direction uh we also have that in the leadership 
teams in our different countries we can Fe it see

it when we go there it's not always happening 
at field level because also one of the things

we have realized is that every single company I 
have been working in or working with under invest

the onboarding process of the people so you will 
take a marketeer from somewhere else dump him in

or her in the organization and they will start 
to behave like their originating organization

and not the culture you want to have in your own 
company because there is no onboarding process

you tell them no no no no no in our company this 
is how we do things right there is no marketing

plan medical plan Market access plan there is 
one asset plan and beginning of Life to end of

life of the product and we all contribute equally 
to it there is no specific stuff and and and and

I think it takes time and we're working right now 
on that on boarding because every time we have uh

people joining the company they need to understand 
how we collaborate and i' have not seen a lot of

great onboarding programs out there maybe that's 
a business to create yeah okay going back going

back to the initial question so we covered that we 
covered basically L between different departments

because at the end of the day um everyone owns 
the customer you know sales owns the customer

marketing owns the customer medical owns the 
customer and nobody actually owns the customer

if you know what I mean right so because if there 
are many many people who own the customer at the

end who is the one who says well the sentiment 
is negative they're not going to work with us

or we haven't delivered on our promise right is 
it sales who's going to say that or it's going

to be marketing or whoever so I think it's very 
important to have one person being actually one

or one Department being actually responsible for 
the for the engagement um we're having the the the

most important say in in what comes to uh talking 
to to customers to the the final uh customer so

we discussed we discussed data we discussed U the 
fact that there is analytics that we would like to

use what are going back to to Ai and serums what 
are maybe some efficient way some many efficient

looking in the future like what are some efficient 
ways we could use a with a serum what what would

you guys foresee in the next maybe a year or two 
that AI could really help AI inside serum let's

say Vivo or IQ or uh piter would help us to uh 
use it better and having better insights and so on

just if I was to say one thing that I I that 
would be very helpful one thing for me would

be building building customized dashboards without 
having the expertise of knowing how to build those

dashboards in a CRM without having to spend it 
on that being able to answer a question that you

have to help you develop your your marketing 
strategy in my in my world that would be the

most powerful thing and my point about like 
you know which customer Target knowing which

a target has the most commercial impact for the 
brand and knowing being able to pull reports on

what people are doing which tactics to use and 
all that stuff having those dashboards that you

could reflect on on a monthly basis which I don't 
think people are doing people aren't looking at

their CRM dashboards and using that to influence 
what they do next if they're not in sales I don't

think they're doing that very often that would 
be very powerful for me because it would help

us as an agency to make really great relevant 
recommendations um for our clients so I'd like to

see I'd like to see that um that capability move 
forward and I think it's possible that that will

happen in in you know probably possible now with 
some with some Ai and some CRM Integrations Floren

what do you so my yeah as as Global you know head 
of comx my dream that tomorrow this system I come

in the morning take my coffee and I chat with 
it and I ask the system you know what happened

what happened yesterday right how's it going and 
the system tells me you know what you have this

part of your content that has been consumed that 
seems to be interesting I would suggest to expand

it to this group of Customer because they could be 
responsive or you have this part of your marketing

mix that actually is not delivering as it should 
be you need to reconsider and change maybe the

messaging or you know try this versus that n no 
I I I would like as you know as CL was saying I

need a co-pilot I need someone who's going to look 
at all that wealth of data and make sure that I

don't need to look at the dashboard I don't want 
to look at dashboard I want to talk to someone

even if it's an AI That's going to look at the 
data for me and tell me you know what I should be

doing like the next step in my Tesla is for me to 
tell my Tesla I want to go to Aon and he drives me

to Aon right now I can say I want to go to Aon and 
he draws a stuff and I still have to drive and I'm

frustrated Drive yeah I yeah I couldn't I couldn't 
agree more I think that complimentary view of the

of our understanding without substituting by the 
way the deepest bit of it that we you know need

to keep feeding into the system and and keep um 
Gathering ourselves is is the most critical bit

because once you understand then you can do right 
then you can do different things and then we're

thinking about AI obviously put somewhere else so 
they can help us obviously on the automation of

content and create more content and personalize 
and and optimize and all the rest of it but if

you don't have that holistic everything in one 
place and by the way once we put it on in one

place we're going to want to cry or run away if it 
depends on us who actually make sense of it that's

where I think the power of AI is awesome so we're 
at the top top of the hour almost any closing um

closing testimonials guys from any of you no I 
would just react on the last post on the on the in

the the floor uh someone some is saying that they 
like the future of farma with CRM but they would

not want to drive the Tesla with AI that's kind 
of the why Elon Musk is Elon Musk and I am who I

am now we got onto our neurons and with all due 
respect I would not want Elon Musk plugged into my

neurons it's like there must be some hardcore 
marketers who who actually really want to do

all that data analytics and they'll be annoyed if 
they've got an AI doing it for them they that's

what they live for you know like the driver I 
don't know I don't think there is any I'm not

sure even the data analytics team would say no 
thank you no say thank yes thank you because I

do I do think the way I think about it is like it 
can do the analysis so that we can do the thinking

with it as opposed to us spending 99.9% of the 
time doing the analysis and then there's no time

for the thinking because we're just overwhelmed 
so I do want to driv in your Tesla nean so when

you're ready tell me have a right happy to have C 
chat in the morning I think I would also just you

know say a message of like I think it is very 
exciting and there's a lot of possibilities I

think I would just plead with people like first 
understand what CRM can do and its capabilities

and how you can build that into your marketing 
strategy understand that and then start to

explore what the possibilities with with your 
AI because then you'll really understand what

can happen with AI if you understand what can 
happen now I think maybe too many people at the

moment just leave that to like a um an internal 
function thing like someone else deals with the

CRM I need to think about it my advice is like 
once you really understand it it's going to

change your completely change your perspective to 
marketing um it's certainly did for me so that's

my recommendation look at and understand your 
CRM and what it can do now yeah mine would be

on that line then that um Clarity of what you're 
trying to achieve is critical as well and that

applies to the metrics we're using now which 
sometimes are not perfect and sometimes it is

because they're not really linked to the strategy 
sometimes they are vanity metrics useless metrics

whatever metrics so make sure that whatever it is 
you're going to put in place perhaps that little

if you can but but but with a very clear intent 
in mind otherwise it's just an experiment that

probably is going to prove that it doesn't work 
and it's not because it doesn't work it's because

it was set up wrong very true awesome thank 
you thank you D you Claus thank you floran um

we are ending our webinar uh for today but uh we 
will continue our webinars in February again so

please do follow Dan Claudia and floran they're 
very active on LinkedIn um and um I'll see you

guys again hopefully at the end of the year thank 
you very much you guys bye bye thank you bye bye

byebye